2010 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

A) My shit doesn't stink. I am not going to say it does just fit in.

B) I don't think you have ever walked into a bjj gym. Everything you have said is totally contradictory. You lump all bjj practioners together as antiquated and inadequate and then say they are the snobs... You don't even understand what you are criticizing.

If you want to knock bjj. It is easy to do... Just say that BJJ itself is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, which it is. You could argue more effectively that bjj is not even really a martial art. But the bjj marketers have set the paradigm up so that bjj will shift and encompass every grappling art. Rolls trained with Bobby Douglas (olympic wrestler) way back in the 70's. These guys stole everything they need from Catch. Everything Catch has, BJJ also has... BJJ cheats by including everything grappling... so you can't win the argument.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

BJJ cheats by including everything grappling... so you can't win the argument.

I know you say that old-school BJJ guys had good takedowns, and I'm sure they did, but you can't really argue that what is usually taught as BJJ now has very little going in the takedown/wrestling department.

[sideloaded]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Quit putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about bjj being antiquated. You keep changing the conversation and trying to confuse everyone by talking in circles. You said that I don't understand what I'm criticizing how can that be because I'm not criticizing anything. Your the one ragging on everything.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

BJJ cheats by including everything grappling... so you can't win the argument.

I know you say that old-school BJJ guys had good takedowns, and I'm sure they did, but you can't really argue that what is usually taught as BJJ now has very little going in the takedown/wrestling department.

Yeah, it is starting to fracture off into two separate arts. Sport bjj and self defense bjj.

That said, these brazilian guys you see in MMA... I have had the chance to do takedowns with a lot of them. They do work their takedowns. They just aren's as good as some of the wrestlers. They would still take 99% of the population down at will. What you are seeing is guys that have specifcally trained to NOT get taken down... to overcome that, you actually have to be really damn good at takedowns. So it is not true that they don't train takedowns... it is more that they just arent as good as what you are used to seeing with these wrestlers. But even some of the wrestlers have problems getting guys down. It is really hard to get a guy down that wont engage you.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Yeah, it is starting to fracture off into two separate arts. Sport bjj and self defense bjj.

Does anyone even really teach "self-defense BJJ" except for maybe some old-school dudes in Brazil? I never really hear much about BJJ as a self-defense system. It's all about going to comps and doing MMA.

They would still take 99% of the population down at will.

Yeah, I thought about that. I'm sure they would be able to take down most random dudes on the street or whatever.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Quit putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about bjj being antiquated. You keep changing the conversation and trying to confuse everyone by talking in circles. You said that I don't understand what I'm criticizing how can that be because I'm not criticizing anything. Your the one ragging on everything.

You said the future was no gi. That means that the gi (bjj) is now or soon will be antiquated. You said bjj guys all think their shit doesn't stink. Those are criticisms.

I am not ragging on anything except 10pljj which I have begged the forum not to bring up, because everyone knows I go off. I have said Eddie is a legit grappler, he himself is very very good. His students aren't very good compared to the publicity they system gets, unless they learned the base of bjj somewhere else first (like Sotiropolous who got his bb in the gi from a legit guy).

I said I like catch. I opined that bjj was more dynamic. That is not a knock on catch... its just the way it is. Bjj has way more positions to attack from and is less dependent on dominant position.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

You said the future was no gi. That means that the gi (bjj) is now or soon will be antiquated.

I think this may very well be true. Eventually it might be like digital vs film. Some photographers still shoot on actual film, especially B&W, but it's becoming a niche thing. Digital has clearly taken over.

I think the time might come when most people are training no-gi. In my opinion, I think it all comes down to how prevalent crossing over to MMA becomes. If most BJJ guys remain exclusively BJJ stylists, then the gi might remain predominant. But if we see a huge swell of guys doing BJJ-for-MMA then the gi will become a niche thing.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Yeah, it is starting to fracture off into two separate arts. Sport bjj and self defense bjj.

Does anyone even really teach "self-defense BJJ" except for maybe some old-school dudes in Brazil? I never really hear much about BJJ as a self-defense system. It's all about going to comps and doing MMA.

No, it is about half and half. Relson and the Torrance academy are all about self defense. It didn't even start as a self contained sport until way later, there wasn't even a world championship until well after UFC 1. Nova Unaio is all about old school self defense too. Kioto is as well.

But a lot of schools are sport oriented... but they are supposed to teach self defense as well. I train at what would probably be called a sport school, even though we are the "old school" side. But we still grapple with strikes occasionally and talk about self defense application in about every class.

Yeah, I thought about that. I'm sure they would be able to take down most random dudes on the street or whatever.

Not just that, but most MMA guys and wrestlers too. If you watch lower level shows, even just one step down from the UFC, you see the takedowns and submissions a lot more. If you watch a local show, about 70% of teh fights end with a sub, IME.

But guys like Demian, he is a way better wrestler than me. Even though I grew up wrestling, he took me down easily. Easily. I have gotten to roll with a lot of the guys that have come in, lower level guys, purple belts and stuff, and their wrestling/judo was just as good as mine...

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Hay guys, what's going on?

[sideloaded]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

You said the future was no gi. That means that the gi (bjj) is now or soon will be antiquated.

So no gi isn't bjj? But didn't you say this.

Rickson fought Zulu in 1981 without a gi.

So without the gi its not bjj?

But you also said that bjj is just a marketing gimmick and incorporates all grappling styles. So if 10th planet is no gi, wouldn't bjj just sallow that up and still call itself bjj?

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

You said the future was no gi. That means that the gi (bjj) is now or soon will be antiquated.

I think this may very well be true. Eventually it might be like digital vs film. Some photographers still shoot on actual film, especially B&W, but it's becoming a niche thing. Digital has clearly taken over.

I think the time might come when most people are training no-gi. In my opinion, I think it all comes down to how prevalent crossing over to MMA becomes. If most BJJ guys remain exclusively BJJ stylists, then the gi might remain predominant. But if we see a huge swell of guys doing BJJ-for-MMA then the gi will become a niche thing.

I disagree. The gi make you a better grappler, even without the gi. Gi training will never die. All of the best no-gi guys train gi. No gi grappling has been around forever, and it hasn't taken over yet. The guys who are good grapplers in MMA still wear the gi to train. There are exceptions (Hughes and Shields), but mostly all the best MMA grapplers rock out a gi in training. Even Brock wears a gi sometimes.

[sideloaded]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

You said bjj guys all think their shit doesn't stink

That's the strong smell I get from 10thpljj haters. Why would you hate on a system and say it doesn't work, when it's clear it does work. How effective can be debated, but it's a fact that it works.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[quote=sideloaded]

You said the future was no gi. That means that the gi (bjj) is now or soon will be antiquated.

So no gi isn't bjj? But didn't you say this.

Rickson fought Zulu in 1981 without a gi.

So without the gi its not bjj?

But you also said that bjj is just a marketing gimmick and incorporates all grappling styles. So if 10th planet is no gi, wouldn't bjj just sallow that up and still call itself bjj?[/quote:2klz0rae]


It is still bjj without a gi... but all bjj stylists train in a gi. The only exceptions I am aware of is Jake Shields, who is a bjj practitioner, but has only worn the gi once (according to him).

That is what I am saying, BJJ already includes the 10thpl stuff. So yeah, it is a part of bjj.

Part of the training is wearing a gi, usually.



I am done with this argument. I can't believe I let you suck me into it again.

[sideloaded]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Hay guys, what's going on?

I think most guys hate Eddie Bravo because he gets way more pussy then them.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

I think I need to put a word filter in for Eddie Bravo like I did for Chael.